Right… last night, I woke up all groggy, and had a few words with the Princess, then when going back to bed, a friend messaged me on MSN. He was the typical government lackey (you know, JPA scholar, die-hard govt. policy supporter, that sort). Below is a selected portion of my conversation with him (names have been changed to protect privacy, and edited for readability):
Not really. The govt misunderstood Arrow’s theory.Government Lackey says:
No. Kenneth Arrow suggested a head start. That’s what the govt gave.
Chewxy, SEVERELY Underpaid Data Anomaly Expert says:
Yes. But not for Malays alone. Arrow suggested equilibrium. It should be for all. Besides, the government has a protectionist manifesto, which is different from trying to equilibrize the situation.
Government Lackey says:
Yes. They should protect the Malays. And our industries. You don’t want our industries to be taken over by foreigners do you?
Chewxy, SEVERELY Underpaid Data Anomaly Expert says:
Interestingly, protectionism only benefits a few people.
Government Lackey says:
Yeah.. our citizens.
Chewxy, SEVERELY Underpaid Data Anomaly Expert says:
Nope. The rich, more like. Just like the Common Agriculture Policy in EU. Protects only the rich. The Duke of Wellington (or something) got some 400 million pounds in subsidies from that policy. NEP is similar. Makes the rich richer. And so the wealth gap opens wider and wider, substantiating the need for more NEP-like policies
Government Lackey says:
But the poor still needs to be protected from crass capitalism.
Chewxy, SEVERELY Underpaid Data Anomaly Expert says:
Nothing wrong with capitalism. You can’t compete, you die. I can’t compete, I die. Pretty fair, I’d say. Ah yes, but of course, we’re compassionate souls, and we can’t stand seeing the poor. Some idiot would go mediaeval and suggest we slaughter them all. But we’re civilized now, so we don’t do that. We help them out of their poverty.
Government Lackey says:
Yes, that’s why we have the NEP. It helps them.
Chewxy, SEVERELY Underpaid Data Anomaly Expert says:
No. That’s not helping them. That’s like crippling their other leg. Helping them would be giving them a means to compete against others fairly, not cheat.
Government Lackey says:
They’re not cheating. Ultimately, in the long run everyone will be equalized. It’s unfair to you coz you didn’t get any benefits.
Chewxy says:
In the long run, everyone will be dead lol. You can quote Keynes on that. It’s cheating, because of the constant payoffs. The rich gets more subsidies (because he owns more ‘entreprenurial’ businesses and so forth, and because he is of certain skin color), while the poor gets the same amount of payoff. So it’s a two way spiral. And no, it’s unfair not only to me, but to everyone who is not of status (i.e rich and Malay)
Government Lackey says:
That’s where you’re wrong, Chewxy. How many rich malays out there claims that they don’t need the NEP? It’s the poor who needs it.
Chewxy says:
Then why haven’t they gotten rich over the past… oh 40 years or so?
Government Lackey says:
Coz you chinese are sucking the money out of the system.
Chewxy says:
You can’t compete? Dang… I thought you were smart. Sorry for making the wrong assumptions then. Check your facts. For the past 30 years or so, Bumi equity has been increasing. Even the govt was forced to admit that last year. Hello…. The problem is race-based economics. Economics should be, IMO, race blind.
Government Lackey says:
Don’t forget May 13th 1969.
Chewxy says:
Gee… lesse… May 13th 1969…. I was somewhere between here and Alpha Centuari. Do you government lackeys always use this to threaten other people? May13th was a completely political issue. Blame it on the stupidness of DAP if you want. There is almost no economic justification for that issue. Bloody irrelevant.
Government Lackey says:
No, it had. Coz you chinese obviously controlled the economy then
Chewxy says:
Then wouldn’t it be easier if the Chinese had just stopped supplying to other races? A countrywide Chinese boycott on trade would kill the economy. And of course, start riots. Economic reasons for May 13th is bollocks. It doesn’t make a difference if the Malays controlled the economy then, or the Indians, or the Indegenous. The riot would still have started because dumbarse DAP hurt many egos. So threats of instability due to economic reasons are just cheap talk. Well.. with a tone of menace.
Government Lackey says:
Whatever lah, but you chinese still keep the economy.
Chewxy says:
So? If markets are efficient and competitive, it doesn’t matter who is in control of the economy. Unless of course, you equate economy to political power. Which is a senseless and irrational thing to equate to. I can suggest better ways of fixing the race-based economy of Malaysia, and heck, I’m just Year 1.
Government Lackey says:
Oh really? Tell me, O-Great One. 
Chewxy says:
Yeah, I am great. lol. One simple way would be to have redistributive taxes. Tax the rich, and give it to the poor. Regardless of race. LHDN can do this very well. They’re the most efficient government agency, dude. Once the poor gets the tax rebate, they will know best how to use it efficiently. Look at Singapore. Their healthcare is superb, their economy is doing well (but their people don’t save nor invest). It’s an almost efficient economy.
Government Lackey says:
The Malays in Singapore are not doing well. Because their chinese government suppresses them. These are things you don’t know and won’t hear about. Besides, Singapore is a small country. It’s easier to implement rules and law.
Chewxy says:
Ugh… more stupid dummkopf government propaganda. My arse. When Lee Hsien Loong got elected, he first gave a speech in BM. Which happens to be better than yours. And stop using “Singapore is a small country” as an excuse. It’s bloody irritating. China is a huuuuuuuuuuuge country. With 1.3 billion people. Once they open their markets up to competition in 1976, big things change. In ‘76, M’sia’s GDP was waaay higher than China’s. They were starving and literally dying in the streets. Right now, China’s richer than M’sia. Country size has nothing to do with this. Grrrrr….
Government Lackey says:
China is big. They have all the resources. And Malaysia is not bad. Rank 33 on the GDP ladder. Good for a country this size.
Chewxy says:
Helloo….. Malaysia is a resource RICH country too. It’s just inefficient.. caused by the government’s unwillingness to participate in global economics. I dunno about this… why is the government so anti-globalization anyways? We can’t compete?
Government Lackey says:
Globalization is bad. Many people will lose their jobs.
Chewxy says:
Yeah, so we decide to protect Proton instead of at least trying to compete. That’s… laughable. Don’t gimme that bullshit about how protecting the local industry is giving them a chance to compete. You really want to give them a chance to compete? Invest in capital like equipment and education.
Government Lackey says:
How immature of you. You know what happens if we open up to free trade? Chaos.
Chewxy says:
Yeah, Russia 1990, blablabla. I’ve heard and read the same thing many times over. If M’sia wants to lock itself up in isolation, please go ahead.
Government Lackey says:
We’re not locking ourselves up. It’s self defense. We cannot lose our culture and identity to others.
Chewxy says:
So that’s why I see you at Starbucks when you come home lol. Culture… my foot.
Government Lackey says:
Doesn’t mean you are studying for an economics degree you are an expert in it. You think yourself too smart, but you’re an idiot.
Chewxy says:
I’m doing a business degree. Not an economics degree. I’d die doing an economics degree. Never let your hobby become your job.
Government Lackey says:
You’re damn immature. Grow up. Things like that don’t matter. You have a nasty habit of correcting people. It’s not good. It makes people hate you.
Chewxy says:
Well, at least I can live with myself lol.
This was last night. I do feel kinda silly right now. Don’t worry. This government lackey and I are good friends. And we do this occasionally some times. Granted, it’s a broad view of Malaysian economics, but I had made a fatal flaw - I assumed everyone acted rationally. Of course, some people will use their tax rebates to buy motorcycles and go rempit lol.
Note on the Transcript: I cut out some more sensitive stuff… involving the people of Xinjiang, southern Thailand and stuff. Also, I cut out whatever sentences that may give clues to his race (no, he’s not Malay). The rest are unabridged, only edited to change the “u”s into “you”s, and stuff like that.
Cool?
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My opinion on this is simple.
The policy helps keep things level, but the people it’s meant to help are too lazy to take advantage, so those who aren’t lazy, do. If the policy wasn’t in place, we wouldn’t see a repeat of 13th May 1969, we would see new riots as a version of the Indonesian riots.
Now now, cfgt… lazy isn’t a correct word to use. Let’s not hurt people’s feelings.. we shall be politically correct. They’re not too lazy to take advantage. They’re too motivationally dispossessed to take advantage.. there.. sounds better?
Yep, I agree with you though. It would be Indonesia’s riots we’d be seeing.
What has DAP go to do with May 13 riot?
Er.. their parading punctured a lot of malay egos. Hence the rioting started
I would love to see what kind of May 13th that’s possible at this day and age. You’ve gotta understand back then, the chinese aren’t that smart as compared to todays lackeys.
We have better brains today. We have conquered back then and even now we still do, and sadly they still didn’t know that we’ve won them over and that IMO is what matters most. Globalisation. Let those who hold dearly to their dear NEP as well as those who uphold what “keris wielding or honour crap” rot in peace.
ermmm… the parading was done by the opposition coalition, in which Gerakan was also a part of…..FYI.
Blaming DAP or even the opposition coalition for inciting a riot is like blaming rape cases on women that wear sexy clothes.
Furthermore, it was, if I have not heard wrongly from my elders who were hiding in chinese grocery stores during the May 13 riot, it was UMNO that held ceramah to provoke the Malays to take aggrssive actions against the Chinese after BN’s defeat.
Yep. The Opposition Coalition did the parading. Let’s look back and find the tipping point of things. Below are possible tipping points
1. Opposition Coalition wins the election
2. Opposition Coalition started parading with some rather rude words
3. BN started counter parading.
The most obvious tipping point would be BN Started their counter parades. It was after Gerakan sent in an apology. Highest probability of riots starting would stem from the counter parade. So… what caused the counter parade? Number 2.
Of course, the government went as far back as to Number 1, and blame the Opposition Coalition winning the election as a start of the riots (we learn that in Kem Bina Negara, organized by Biro Tatanegara, where they give reasons why the opposition should never win). That, of course, is irrational. The election is presumed to be a fair election, so they won it fair and square. Riots are not direct outcomes of the elections, and is not dependent on the result of the elections. Simply put that BN could have won the elections, and were the ones parading instead, and the Opposition Coalition starts a counter parade.
So, blaming the fact that the Opposition Coalition won the election would be akin to blaming women for wearing sexily for rape. But blaming the Opposition Coalition for parading, hence inciting anger, is a decent degree to look at. Or, some people prefer to look at the direct degree of what caused the riots - counter parades. It’s all up to a point of view. I merely took a higher, logical degree.
Unknown Warrior:
Globalization is in fact being stopped by Government policies right now. Protectionist policies are in place, supposedly to protect the local’s industry is actually hurting the industry extremely badly. One day, I’ll go get the figures. So, no… you can’t let them rot in piece(s), because they are gonna drag you down as well. Take the example of Khazakstan (jagsermash!!!!), or Bruges (a.k.a Belgium) in the Renaisance. They are stuck in isolation, without any link to the global world. The world is getting to be a smaller place, whether the govt likes it or not. Protectionist policies will hurt us in the mid-range run (within this generation itself), and it will hurt us bad. So it’s better to change. There isn’t a need to change all over abruptly. Do it like China or S’pore. Tried and tested. And oh, please tone down your comments to be less anger inciting. This is in public domain
I would have to disagree with you on your higher and logical view. In fact, I would urge you to go even higher and more logical than that, honestly. It certainly IS unreasonable to blame the opposition coalition for celebrating or parading.
An anology, my colleague just got a promotion which I was shortlisted for as well and the whole department knew about it, and the bugger went and celebrated and paraded over it in front of me. That does not give me the rights to whack the living daylights out of him, correct? ;-P
In view of rights, does it mean that your colleague has the right to call you rude names, and jeer and leer at you everytime he sees you? What if your colleague had good relationships with the boss, or becomes your immediate boss, and loudly and publicly tells you that you will forever have no chance of getting promoted, only a chance of getting demoted? What if you are publicly humiliated during the celebration? (some people live for public humiliation, but that’s another matter all together)
Undoubtedly, that would make you angry, no? And if you don’t have other job alternatives, you’d feel fearful too, right?
Similarly, DAP’s actions, by proclaiming that “Malays have lost their place in the country” loudly and proudly incited a fear within them. They’ve also been publicly humiliated, hence came out with the economic excuse
That, my friend, is where civilization kicks in. As much as being upset with the public insults hurled my way, I believe in practicing self control and not stoop to the level of whacking the daylights out of the opponent upon defeat. That’s good sportsmanship, fair and square. Otherwise, it will be a “heads I win, tails you lose” lopsided scenario which, in turn, defies the purpose of even having the election to begin with.
And again, I wish to highlight your biased perception against DAP alone. There is no reason to single out DAP as the opposition coalition at that time dfefinitely include more than one political party.
And furthermore, not trying to divert attention or whatsoever, the insults hurled against the Malays were AMPLIFIED in the ceramahs’ conducted by the BN folks theselves to invoke more agressive reactions. Yes, the same way our goons are still playing the racial cards against other races nowadays by making a molehill into a mountain.
don’t get me wrong, I am not a DAP member, but just wish to correct the facts as facts, not scewed facts. Cheers.
Oh.. I’m not having a biased perception against DAP. I have thought Uncle Kit’s ideas were pretty good, and he has raised many many valid points. Yes, there is no need to single out DAP, but people nowadays regard Gerakan as one of BN’s parties, so in order not to confuse my readers (who have been extremely silent, despite over 100 viewings already), I use DAP. And during the chat with my friend, DAP is easier to identify as Opposition party than say… DAP, GERAKAN et. al.
As for civilization, I believe I can provoke you into hitting me. I am exceedingly good at provoking people. Believe me you. Yes, some of BN’s component party’s actions are of lacking the correct sportsmanship, but there is always a point where it breaks. And yes, it pretty much defeated the purpose of the elections and sealed off any chances of any opposiiton parties winning in the future (simply because the opposition can never contest as many seats as BN is allowed to or something like that).
I am well aware of the grim political outlooks in Malaysia, but I am actually more concerned about the economic outlooks, which looks equally grim to me. I’m no economist, but I do read, and I can make my own conclusions, which of course, are not necessarily right, but still my opinions. If I have the time, I’d get some numbers and statistics to justify my claims.
Perhaps when I have the time. Overall, the above conversation posted above is just a broad view of the dystopian economics of Malaysia. To go into much details, I would as Government Lackey said: get an economic degree
but still, please get the records straight. DAP does not equal opposition, then and now.
The recent ehtnic module proposed by the ministry of higher learning education did exactly the same thing by citing DAP as responsible for May 13 riot, and the outcome of that was we risk having history altered down the road if it goes undetected and uncorrected.
Convenience is one thing, but historical facts must not be compromised solely due to the reason of convenience. Otherwise we are guilty in participation of the dispicable act of rewriting our very own version of skewed history. Just my thoughts.
Dude… you’re about 10 ~ 15 years too late. Scholarship students are indoctrinated by BTN with that version of history for the past 10 years or so…
And yes, you’re right. DAP != Opposition. But DAP ⊆ Opposition. But as they say, history is written by victors… so it’s pretty much pointless (and uneconomical, since you face ISA) to keep insisting on your version. That is not to say that you are wrong, or anything. Just saying that I don’t share your view in being so open about berating the truth in other people’s face.
For me, as long as I know the facts, and shut up about it, then that’ll be enough
“Never let your hobby become your job.”
i beg to differ. let there be no difference between work + play…in a way….do that which you love best
but to each it’s own…
anyway, re FTA/NEP, it’s a touchy problem. as malaysians, we have to think of what to do..together…although some can walk faster than others but because we are in it together…those fast ones should slow down a bit help the slower ones. at the same time the slow ones should buck up and get to speed…
re culture, we probably have too little cultural history to compete with the big-time cultures like India, China, European…so the theory ( i can’t quote the source but i think moo_t mentioned it too) that usually there will be a DOMINANT culture….it’s a matter of survival…civilisations based on certain cultures thrive because they have found the effective and efficient ways to develop and grow…..
Yes, it’s a very touchy problem indeed. Together is a good word. The best thing about being communist is that everyone’s poor together. The fast ones should not slow down to help others, because you’re in a race. Instead, the slow ones should be given rocket shoes, not by the fast ones. There are ways to help people without making others worse off. The current system does not do that, and hence it is not efficient.
As for culture, Malaysia has nary 300 years of culture (if you think about it.. it’s actually less than 150 years - from 1400 to 1511, when culture flourished, and then gets frozen after that). And yes, the Dominant Culture would obviously be something efficient.
Hence - competition is a good way out.
The parading, I believe, was a legally sanctioned ceremony. What happened was that participants of the parade changed (deviated from) their route to pass through the Malay heartlands of Kg Baru, etc. And shouted phrases which were not pleasant while they were passing through.
If we were to be politically correct while debating politics, it would take a really long time to get anywhere.
Agreed. Henceforth, we shall deliberate the political processes.
With nice, short, concise sentences.
I jsut studied May 13th 1969 in college. And from my perspective… it’s more of a political than an economic reason as to why the Malays and Chinese rioted.
Er, your best friend there is Malayneum amirite? ¯\(o_º)/¯
HOLY SHI- , IT’S A MALYNEUM… GET ON THE MOTORCYCLE!
I thought he was from “University Hertfordshire? I’m from KBU btw.
There will be no rempit talk here ya